August 6. 2008 15:25

Note; Much rambling below - let's get ready to RUMBLE.......

Your points are valid - and big love reinforces your points - but you are missing the key point - that the big love series has been written as a controversial series to explore the facets of monogamy - and the idea of people being able to CHOOSE the type of relationship they desire to live in this life. Unlike the real thing, these women are not 'forced' (at least it hasn't been written that way) to stay with Bill or in the relationship - in fact, the first wife moves away! Come on, don't you see that its not about polygamy, but about relationships. There are PLENTY of unhappy married couples out there, for the same reasons (loneliness, lack of communication, boredom) that are used as plot venues in big love. Thats why people really enjoy the show.

It also explores the concept of how much society should 'control' our ability to form relationships (plural marriage in big love). There is no abuse, cursory care and concern (Bill is a bit of a jerk as various times, but where is a guy who isn't .

Is anyone here against gay folks living together, if they are adults and freely desire the relationship? Would you jail them for that? Would you exclude from social interaction? Would you destroy their business, or harass them? If you feel that way, why not pass a law and make sure that they can't. That's what we need, laws telling us how to live our lives - and maybe a death penalty for violating the law.... wait..... that's Iran. Can't wait for the mullahs to take charge.

As you point out, the problem with polygamy in the REAL world is that it is NOT freely chosen, but administered by arbitrary authorities.... and hence the people involved GIVE UP their God-given agency to a corrupt and morally bankrupt group of individuals.

If you don't like polygamy, don't do it. But a monogamous relationship don't necessarily have anything morally superior (or less) over polygamous relationships. Can't you love more than one person? Can Jesus love more than one? I hope so. Relationships are about love, devotion, care, support, sharing, and communication. Its not limited to a set of cardinality one (math talk).

For me, libertarianism is about limiting the influence of arbitrary or absolute authority in peoples lives while maximizing the responsibility of the individual for their own life. There is no free lunch - live free and pay for it.

Mojodon

August 6. 2008 15:25

Forgive the grammatical mistakes above - I was 'in the zone'....

Mojodon

August 6. 2008 22:37

We found Season Two of Big Love to be dark, with blood atonement and Pioneer Day in Utah interspersed with gambling addiction and, as you note, wife addiction. What nobody is talking about here is that Bill is the quintessential Capitalist, always on the lookout for more profits, more money, and as with so many men, more women! People should be satisfied with what they need, not what they want... Still, we are eagerly looking forward to Season Three, which begins in January on HBO! (By the way, someone recently told me that they didn't like Big Love because it made LDS seem weird and not just the polygamists! LOL! Yeah. Maybe because the whole kit and caboodle are weird, maybe?)

Fidel

August 7. 2008 03:09

Oh boy....here we go!

Mojodon and Fidel--very interesting "takes" on the show. Lisey, as usual, I totally agree with you and find your thoughts very persuasive!

What we need to remember is: 1) this is a Hollywood fiction; 2) real people in real situations are infinitely complex and much darker than what is allowed on television (even HBO....except for perhaps Dexter, who is just DARK); 3) the same kind of reasoning in Hollywood produces this show, The Girls Next Door (about geriatric Hefner), Jerry Springer and all those sleezy "reality" shows going on. All of them give a false impression about life--and in many ways, poison people's minds about what is normal, what is acceptable, what is off the wall and what is civilized. Everything goes in these shows--and I believe that moral standards as well as civil standards are being lowered every single day by them.

I believe Jesus does love each person on earth deeply--and died for us. But I do NOT believe that Jesus loves each one of us romantically or sexually. To even insinuate that the love of the Lord is equivalent in any way to the marriage love between individuals is quite blasphemous to me. Agape has never been eros, nor philia. In a true marriage, all three exist, but I believe that the Lord's love is more of a wonderful, sacrificing parent to His children.

For those of us forced to live near the Kingstons, the FLDS, the Steed clans and all the others....the contrast between the Lord's love and their perversion of love is so great that it boggles the mind. For every beautiful thing that the Lord creates, Satan has his counterfeit....and in regard to love and sexual expression, polygamy is that counterfeit's name.

Cyn

August 7. 2008 07:46

Lisey: Jesus was gay: His Beloved was John (not the hooker, Mary).

Cyn: What about all those poor souls forced to live near LDS (let alone FLDS)?

We, in Cuba, pity them all!

Mojodon: Methinks Cyn hasn't even watched a single episode of Big Love! She writes things that really aren't germane to the show...but obviously, in her fevered imagination, thinks is the hit show!

As to my point about Capitalism (what Lisey calls "Collecting"): Bill and his three wives (guess it will be four by the end of Season Three) are like Bill and his box stores... One is never enough!

LOL!!!!! While one, in so many cases, is Too Many...

Fidel

August 7. 2008 09:05

Fidel, Jesus was NOT gay. If gayness were the way of heaven, we on earth would never have been born. Jesus created the earth. He created the archetype of heaven with Adam and Eve. (Not Adam, Eve, Rachel and Sarah, by the way....or Adam and Joe.) To say that John was the beloved is to contradict modern scholarship which disputes that....and indicates that the phrase "the beloved" is never attached to any particular apostle and could have applied to Mary Magdelene. After all, the definition of "apostle" is a "messenger" for the Lord, and Mary is considered an "apostle TO the other apostles" since she saw him first and he told her to go and tell the others.

Cyn

August 7. 2008 10:05

Someones been drinking too many Emeril's peach toros!

And it isn't yours truly!

Jesus of Old (and not Jesu of Panama City) once visited Jericho and what was left out of the Gospel of Mark about his adventures on this trip was rather endearing in a very gay kind of way!

http://skeptically.org/newtestament/id5.html

The New Testament Gospels have all been bowdlerized and not been "restored" by Jose Smith looking and talking into his hat either!

Why does this give you all fits???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism

Mary, for instance, as a hooker is fine with me...
But I'm not really a Big Believer!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magdalene

Adios you crazies!

Fidel

August 7. 2008 10:07

PS: Jesus never existed! And this video will convince of that!

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/main.htm

Fidel

August 8. 2008 06:51

To all:

I researched the purported Secret Gospel of Mark referred to above. The "discover", Morton Smith, has never been able to show this document to anyone, nor can he show the purported book in which it was found. Genuine scholars dispute that it even exists; it is categorically stated that the letter discussing this "gospel" is a hoax.

But even if we admitted the possibility that it was a historical record, Morton Smith himself states that it was NOT a sexual union discussed but a baptism or initiatory rite.

This leads me to my final point: why is it that people with far from mainstream preferences always insist on coloring everyone else with their odd paintbrush? And why malign the Son of God with this stuff? I worry about Fidel; he is treading very close to the point of mocking God. And God will not be mocked.

Cyn

August 10. 2008 02:26

Threatening LaBaron blood-attonement, Cyn?

Fidel

August 11. 2008 06:33

Uhhhh, I hadn't thought of that....but now that you bring it up......It's Tempting....

Cyn